Talk:Germany

Regarding Demographics Section

The paragraph below that is taken from the section of demographics regarding the topic of immigration in Germany illustrates the potential for confusion when the terms 'migrants' and 'refugees' are used interchangeably:

'After the United States, Germany is the second-most popular immigration destination in the world. In 2015, following the 2015 refugee crisis, the Population Division of the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs listed Germany as host to the second-highest number of international migrants worldwide, about 5% or 12 million of all 244 million migrants. Refugee crises have resulted in substantial population increases.'

This conflation is problematic as it does not address the distinctions between legal and humanitarian statuses of refugees and migrants, and uses them as though they signify the same concept. 78.179.1.222 (talk) 00:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Refugees are a subcategory of migrants; what this section seems to suggest is that this subgroup has driven an overall rise in immigration rates. Do you have sourcing to suggest otherwise? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:21, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

I think what IP is objecting to is that the statement 'Refugee crises have resulted in substantial population increases.' is an unsourced addition, and editorializing by whomever added it in. I concur. JackTheSecond (talk) 01:59, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

The claim appears to be supported by the following source, and could be supported by additional sources if necessary. What leads you to believe it is editorializing? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:41, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

To resolve this issue and try to reach a consensus, let's see:

1- "Migrants" means someone who changes residence and/or condition

2- "Refugees" means someone who are im a refuge, that is, protected by something or someone.

Therefore, I really don't think these two terms are perfectly synonyms, however, maybe in a philosophical context, they may appear to be the same in some yet unstudied way, it's a hypothesis, but it can make sense, anyway, that's a good subject, although I agree that, in an objective context, they are in fact not synonymous, but nothing prevents a migrant can be refugee. 177.105.90.20 (talk) 20:03, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Why isn’t Bonn included in the capitals? As most government buildings are still located there even after reunification

Put Bonn

as the capital as not many people knew it was the capital of west Germany, and many government buildings are still located there Usydydjwhxyxhx (talk) 18:15, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Bonn is not listed as the capital because it is not the capital - that's an official designation, not based on where government buildings are located. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, certainly! I've google for Germany cities, and Bonn was described just as "City" properly, and not as capital, I have two hypotheses:

1- Bonn is not a capital

2- Bonn is a capital, but Google is misguiding (what I honestly think not).

Any counter-argue? 177.105.90.20 (talk) 20:14, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Postwar

"The Allies de jure abolished the German state"

I think that should be "de facto" as the Potsdam Agreement clearly treats all of prewar Germany. I'm not aware of any agreement to dissolve Germany legally. 83.1.168.150 (talk) 16:07, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Seems like sources support the current wording - see for example this. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Seems the Legal status of Germany is way more complicated, currently a single POV is presented as a fact. 83.1.168.150 (talk) 18:49, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

That article covers a longer time period than the immediate post-war situation, although perhaps the current article text relies heavily on how one interprets "state". CMD (talk) 01:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Science and technology

Good morning,

the section Science and technology is vital to German history and present with being a industrial power. So many German inventions can be shared a little section. I think this part is a must have for the Germany page. BauhausFan89 (talk) 05:47, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

We do not need a section in this article detailing inventions - that is more appropriately placed at a subarticle. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:36, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

We need a shorten version to bring peoples attention to the longer linked subarticles. the wide and long history of German inventions and science is a central part of German culture and present day German industrial power. BauhausFan89 (talk) 09:23, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

We already have a paragraph about the importance of R&D - that is sufficient. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:57, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

The two attempts to add the section were more about individual achievements than the country as a whole. E.g. name-dropping. I would think that a general overview (of the country and its circumstances) with a link to a list article like List of German inventions and discoveries or List of German inventors and discoverers would work better. JackTheSecond (talk) 01:33, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Science and technology in Germany exists, although it has similar issues of being quite listy. CMD (talk) 02:16, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

good point. will work on that. BauhausFan89 (talk) 10:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I fixed the last post on German Science and Technology. can I post it? its common on all other wiki country pages and only a few lines and one picture. BauhausFan89 (talk) 20:20, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

No - as above, what is already there is sufficient. Suggest working on one of the other pages Jack or CMD mentioned. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

how is the consensus. Science and inventions are a major part of German history and culture. and there is a wide field to introduce. atm one who looks at the wiki article "Germany" has no idea about it. BauhausFan89 (talk) 05:18, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Religion 2022 census

50.7% Christianity 43.8% no religion 3.7% Islam 1.7% others 2A02:2149:8BC8:C000:FD2F:4B7D:F930:EDFF (talk) 06:48, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

It appears that official results aren't yet available. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:00, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria The Census 2022 did not ask for religion. XodoX (talk) 09:04, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Add "Most populous country fully in Europe"

Replace bit about 2nd most populated european country with that 120.19.164.2 (talk) 11:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Wrong European Russia has 110 million people. Undashing (talk) 10:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Second most-populous country in Europe

I do not understand why Germany's population statistics within the European continent is being removed. It is a very notable fact. The European Union is an organization that does not represent the entire continent. This sentence about Germany being the second-most populous country in Europe has been featured in the long-standing lead as far back as 2020.

Only recently, a Turkish editor has been actively trying to vandalize the article. As seen here, he is trying to remove the sentence without any explanation. That too, multiple times. All of this is happening without any discussion. And besides, what is there to discuss? Basic geography and demographics does not matter anymore?

The CIA source used in the demographics section explicitly states that Germany is the second-most populous in the continent after Russia. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the entire article. So why are we removing this sentence about its population within the European continent? How absurd. Or is this "excess" too?

Central Intelligence Agency - "As Europe's largest economy and second most-populous nation (after Russia)...." Swoonfed (talk) 14:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

You are correct that the lead is intended to be a summary of the entire article. But what that means is that not every notable fact can be included in the lead - just a proportional summary. So while there are several demographic rankings in the article body, there should not be several in the lead - just one is proportional. The EU one is a good pick for that because it is straightforward, undisputed, and doesn't require getting into the weeds about what does or doesn't count as being in Europe. However, if you prefer, we could switch that for the world ranking? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:24, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

We're counting the European part only. European Russia has 110 million people. Germany has about 84 million people., which makes Germany the 2nd largest. Undashing (talk) 12:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Since the last version by Undashing was ungrammatical (sentence starting with "lies"), I looked up the version of the latest FA-review[1] and suggest we follow the idea from there: Having the ranking after mentioning the number of inhabitants and referring to the EU only. I don't see why we should mention any other country (in this case Russia) in the first paragraph of the lead of an article that is about one country. Rsk6400 (talk) 14:32, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

9 pictures in German history

hi

9 pictures in the history section is common among major countries. can I add one in the last part of German history. its there to cover 35 years of German history. BauhausFan89 (talk) 20:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Not sure where the number 9 comes from....but or FA and GA country articles generally have one image for every three or four paragraphs see these at WP:COUNTRYSIZE. That said what image and where are you considering adding this? Moxy🍁 00:28, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

in the last part of history. trying to include Merkel, a known German president and the united Germany yearly celebrations to include major aspects of the last 35 years of German history. BauhausFan89 (talk) 05:19, 31 July 2024 (UTC)